Talk:Weapons

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Additional information

Dumping this information here for the moment: Run! 14:21, 10 February 2008 (MST)

Weapon Power Settings - what they mean

Items marked with a *** require an external scheme editor to effect. With all weapons except for those noted below, the damage goes like this:

  • power 11 = 50% of power 3 ***
  • power 12 = 70% of power 3 ***
  • power 1 = 80% of power 3
  • power 2 = 90% of power 3
  • power 3 = 100% of power 3
  • power 4 = 110% of power 3
  • power 5 = 120% of power 3
  • power 19 = 130% of power 3 ***
  • power 14 = 150% of power 3 ***
  • power 15 = 200% of power 3 ***

With Flame Thrower, the amount of flame it throws varies by the above rule, but the power of the flame does not.

Holy Hand Grenade maxes out at power 3.

With Handgun, Uzi and Minigun, the bullet spread actually changes by the above rule (so at a higher power it will be less accurate).

With Mortar, Cluster Bomb, Banana Bomb, Air Strike, and Napalm Strike, not only does the power of each piece follow the above rule, but the number of pieces (clusters, missiles, bits of napalm) changes as well:

  • power 11 = 50% as much damage, 50% as many pieces = 25% total effect ***
  • power 6 = 80% as much damage, 50% as many pieces = 40% total effect ***
  • power 12 = 70% as much damage, 70% as many pieces = 49% total effect ***
  • power 7 = 90% as much damage, 70% as many pieces = 63% total effect ***
  • power 1 = 80% as much damage, 80% as many pieces = 64% total effect
  • power 2 = 90% as much damage, 90% as many pieces = 81% total effect
  • power 3 = 100% as much damage, 100% as many pieces = 100% total effect
  • power 4 = 110% as much damage, 110% as many pieces = 121% total effect
  • power 5 = 120% as much damage, 120% as many pieces = 144% total effect
  • power 9 = 110% as much damage, 150% as many pieces = 165% total effect ***
  • power 14 = 150% as much damage, 130% as many pieces = 195% total effect ***
  • power 10 = 120% as much damage, 200% as many pieces = 240% total effect ***
  • power 15 = 200% as much damage, 150% as many pieces = 300% total effect ***

Skunk poison and longbow damage goes

  • power 1 = 50% of power 3
  • power 2 = 70% of power 3
  • power 3 = 100% of power 3
  • power 9 = 130% of power 3 ***
  • power 4 = 150% of power 3
  • power 5 = 200% of power 3

Axe damage goes

  • power 1 = 25%
  • power 2 = 35%
  • power 3 = 50%
  • power 4 = 65%
  • power 5 = 75%

Rope:

  • power 1 = 1 shot, max length 294 pixels, initial angle restricted to 45° from straight up
  • power 2 = 2 shots, max length 336 pixels, initial angle restricted to 45° from straight up
  • power 3 = 2 shots, max length 378 pixels, initial angle restricted to 90° from straight up
  • power 4 = 3 shots, max length 420 pixels, initial angle restricted to 90° from straight up
  • power 5 = unlimited, max length 462 pixels, initial angle restricted to 90° from straight up
  • WWP super rope = unlimited, max length 840 pixels, initial angle restricted to 162° from straight up, 1/3 roping friction compared to normal

Girder radius:

  • power 1 = 200 pixels
  • power 2 = 400 pixels
  • power 3 = 600 pixels
  • power 4 = 800 pixels
  • power 5 = 1000 pixels
      • [using external scheme editor, this can be increased in steps of 200]

the "criticisms" sections

I'm not sure I approve of the "criticisms, problems and weaknesses" sections on most of these weapons pages. It seems to me that all the criticisms are redundant or frivolous. Here's a breakdown of all the 'criticisms' I've seen so far:

  • this weapon requires practice
  • this weapon does shit damage
  • a different weapon does the same thing with more damage
  • a different weapon can do something that this one can't
  • this weapon does something unexpected and harmful (eg. a bug)

the only valid criticism is that last one, and so few weapons are afflicted by bugs that it's not worth having a whole section one each weapon page for it. A trivia or details section like the HHG or Clusters pages have should be enough for any curiosities in the way the weapon works.

Anyway I just want to see if there are any objections before i start trundling through all the pages changing everything Run! 07:23, 22 February 2008 (MST)

The way I've been seeing it is mainly as a "compare and contrast" section between similar weapons, or listing some situations where it isn't ideal or becomes extremely difficult to use successfully, like in the Holy Hand Grenade page. I felt that these things were worth mentioning, but didn't really fall under "tactics" as they were disadvantages of the weapon. Maybe it's unnecessary, but to me personally it makes the information about the weapon seem more complete. I mean, although people would expect rocket launchers in a game like DOOM to hurt you at close range, I'd imagine a wiki page on it would still mention this fact. I don't really have any problems with you removing the sections and any redundant material if you feel it isn't necessary though. Perhaps we should rename them to "Advantages and Disadvantages" and clean out any unnecessary information?
As for bugs, I always put them on a seperate page in the Tricks and glitches area and link to them just before the Tactics section underneath the main section of the article, as I feel that they're better suited there. --Melon 10:48, 22 February 2008 (MST)
I suppose some weapons do have valid disadvantages, and that would make a better subtitle. "Criticisms" just makes it sound like the weapons have design flaws Run! 04:24, 25 February 2008 (MST)

Power settings

Would it be a useful thing to add an Effect radius to the Power settings box? I had this idea since the radius of at least 1 hp damage is usually considerably bigger than the crater radius and it would probably be useful information - or at least as useful as the crater radius. I'm currenty making some simulations concerning the values of these, as well as determining more detailed damage/crater radius values where possible and/or needed (including testing all power settings from 1 to 255 to at least find out which settings result in no damage). Balee 17:25, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

An excellent idea, and it certainly would be useful in some cases (in the team17 scheme I like to remember the blast radius of the pigeon so i know when i can use one over the roof of the map), but it's going to be very tricky to determine. It would be interesting to see how you measure it. Also, I think the area of influence is actually diamond-shaped, and not a circle, as it makes it a lot easier for the game to crunch the numbers (this is also how the girder placement radius is calculated i believe). That might actually make measuring it easier. Run! 22:06, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Well it'll take some thinking and a lot of map making (I'll make one big map for every non-super weapon instead of one little for each of them), but i can send you a replay of it, or even upload it here as a reference. I didn't know about that diamond-shape, so I have a feeling it will spice things up, but if I'm able to determine the exact shape, I'll probably be able to predetermine some thing, making it a lot more easier. Still it would be better if it would be a circle. Balee 22:44, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

During today's (more like tonight's) experimenting, I stumbled upon a rather interesting thing, which I can't keep in myself, so allow me to tell those interested: both the drill and blowtorch have a maximum damage that can be done on one worm. I used Rubberworm's shot doesnt end turn mode, and saw that no matter how much I drill on a worm (or burn its ass, but it was, as it turned out later, the same), I only can do a fixed amout of damage - for example, 35hp on power setting 6. I could use as many drills as I wanted to, it would be the same. So if I stopped the drill after 3 hits, that gives 12+6+4=22hp damage, and then if I start again, and hit him again 3 times, its 3+2+2=7hp, and then all 1hp hits until the total in that turn is 35hp. If I change to another worm, and drill on the one I drilled until that, it wont add any new damage. Also, if I drill the aforementioned 22hp damage to the worm, and THEN I use blowtorch on it, it will still get only 13hp of damage. So to sum it up, if D is the damage of the drill, and B is of the blowtorch, then D + B = X, where X equals the maximum damage that can be applied to a single worm per turn, and it is determined by the power setting. Thats it for now, I sure hope this has at least some news in it, otherwise I'll feel stupid ;) Balee 01:20, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Hahahahah, actually my friend jeremy/splongul discovered something along those lines in our shot-doesn't-end-turn moleshopper games :P We didn't look into it as closely as you did but I do remember that using either weapon 'contributes' to a shared decay of the injury done... much to his annoyance! Run! 08:51, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
Hehe, I was guessing I wasn't the first person to discover this :P
Additionally, I thought about that there should be a separate article for these more detailed power settings, I'll make it when the time comes, but still, it could be constructive to then only keep settings 1 to 5 on the weapon's article, and all others on this new page. What do you think? Balee 11:52, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
It might be a good idea to have a huge table of power settings for all weapons on a single page, certainly, but I reckon it'll still be useful to have them also listed on each weapon page. It doesn't take up much space, anyway. Run! 13:09, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
I gave my idea's second part some thought and you're right, it doesnt really matter if they are also listed on the weapon's page. As for the first part, I could start working on it even now, but a - yet - quite unfilled table-system wouldnt look appealing to the naked eye, so I guess I should start it only when I have a significant amount of infos. Or any other ideas? Balee 22:27, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

WebKit issue

I had noticed that the new version of WebKit browsers (Chrome or Safari) may render image maps incorrectly. Therefore I made a text version of this page for such cases. Explorer09 14:07, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

WeaponPanel failing when someone tries to click on some weapons

When you try to click in some weapons of the WeaponPanel it is impossible! To open the weapon page you need to go to the text version to see the weapon information! Please someone must solve this problem! All the F3 weapons cannot be clicked!--FoxHound 14:51, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

You must be using Safari or Chrome, see above. It's a bug in your browser. --Vladimir 17:45, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
I use Mozilla Firefox. So that's a browser error... =S--FoxHound 02:40, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

About this bug

I've examined the page and found that the bug is occurred when two <div> objects sharing the same z-index -- in this case, the clickable icons on the left and the weapon panel -- overlap each other. That is, the browsers cannot know which object is above the other, and thus, it wasn't the browsers' fault for this bug to happen.

I'll try finding a workaround to avoid this problem. --Explorer09 13:14, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Done :) --Explorer09 13:52, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Thank you!--FoxHound 13:38, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

IE8 issue (in image maps)

I've found that IE8 is a bit buggy rendering image maps. The detection "area" may be 1-pixel upward than I defined. For example, if I define a rectangle with attribute coords="10,10,20,20" (left=10, top=10, right=20, bottom=20), a cursor at (15,10) may be detected as "within the rectangle", but a cursor at (15,20) may not.

More testing is still needed. --Explorer09 12:51, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Suggest new categories

I suggest:

--Explorer09 00:27, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Um... why? :P I don't see the point in creating categories for stuff just because it can be neatly categorized. Categories should only be created when they'd be useful, and I don't see any point in these categories which the Weapons page doesn't already satisfy. --Vladimir 00:59, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
I came up with this idea because of two things:
If there are going to be a weapon panel for *each* game, I think there should be a navigational thing for each of them. Besides, if anyone wants to see only the weapons in a specific game (or port), a category as well as a clickable weapon panel could help. --Explorer09 14:25, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
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